[ Sandy/NASAChatHost - 0 - 11:11:52 ]
Welcome to another NASA QUEST Mars Chat! Exobiologist Jack Farmer will be here to answer your questions at 2:30 p.m., Pacific. Be sure to read his newly updated (as of today!) bio at-- http://quest.arc.nasa.gov/sso/team/farmer.html

[ Sandy/NASAChatHost - 1 - 14:26:22 ]
DID YOU KNOW??? The reason that Jack studies hot springs is because they are excellent environments to fossilize microorganisms. Hot springs are also natural places to explore for fossil life on Mars. Jack has been looking at images of the surface of Mars for the most likely spots for ancient hot-spring deposits.

[ Sandy/NASAChatHost - 2 - 14:28:40 ]
DO YOU KNOW WHY Jack's nickname in high school was "Stoney"?

[ Sandy/NASAChatHost - 4 - 14:31:56 ]
RE: [Vince/Boeing-Vince/Boeing] Hi Jack and Sandy
Hi Vince! Glad you could join us! The chat will begin momentarily... I know you've got your questions ready :-)

[ Sandy/NASAChatHost - 6 - 14:35:55 ]
RE: [David-Mars2012/UniversityofCalifornia] Hello, Jack! My name is David Gan, a retired Public Health Microbiologist with the California State Health Dept and now a mentor to UC Berkeley Marsby2012 HEDS-UP projects. I was at the Planetary Society Conference at Houston in May and the Mars Society Conference at Boulder few weeks ago. Professor Larry and I gave a lecture of Triple Point of Water near Mars conditions to see if liquid water can appear at times on the surface. I did a bell jar experiment in my kitchen with dry ice, vacuum pump and ice cubes and found indeed, liquid water can exist at warmer temperatures.
Welcome David! How wonderful that you are a Marsby2012 HEDS-UP mentor! Hope you have some good questions ready for Jack!

[ JackFarmer/Exobiologist - 8 - 14:36:32 ]
Hello everyone! I'm here and ready to chat. I'll start with David. Your experiments with water sound fascinating. Sounds like something I could effectively use in my classes here at ASU!

[ JackFarmer/Exobiologist - 10 - 14:39:20 ]
RE: [Vince/Boeing-Vince/Boeing] 1. Given a Mars/Earth parallel 'life' evolution what sort of fossil or live organisms would you expect to find on Mars today?
Hi Vince, To answer your question I think its important to emphasize that life on Earth began as microbial and remained so for the first 85% of Earth history. Only about 600 million years ago did complex multicelled life arise. Given that we think Mars was most clement for life early in the planet's history, it is probably reasonable to assume we are looking for simple, unicelled forms.

[ JackFarmer/Exobiologist - 12 - 14:41:27 ]
RE: [David-Mars2012/UniversityofCalifornia] Hi, It is important to show that liquid water because most life, or all life depends on it. Accordingly, I have built a Conceptual Model of a Robotics Laboratory to culture bacteria from Martian subsurface water. I will challenge UC Berkeley students in Engineering (Robotics) Computer Science , Astronomy and Biological Sciences majors to make this thing a reality for the 2003 Mars Mission.
David, Yes! Liquid water is key. Water is such a remarkable substance and we rarely hear people talk about it. In my lecture courses I have started focusing on the properties of water that make it so essential for life. It provides an important context which drives a lot of what we are doing in exploration.

[ JackFarmer/Exobiologist - 15 - 14:45:38 ]
RE: [David-Mars2012/UniversityofCalifornia] Hi One of the first things we will attempt to culture for are Archea (methane, iron, sulfur, halophiles and thermophiles) as well as Eubacteria. I think we may find pseudomonads. As part of my experience with the State Health Department work in investigating deep ground water flora, we have found bacteria still unidentified, Protist such as Arcella and even nematodes. So, there is a short food chain going on down there. We may find the same on Mars!
David, i guess I'm not surprised to hear about what you have been finding. My colleague Todd Steven at the NW Pacific Labs has been working on the microbiology of deep aquifers in the Columbia River Basalt. He has found many species and metabolic strategies, including chemolithoautotrophs that utilize hydrogen liberated by the aqueous weathering of basalt. These types of organisms hold special interest for Mars as they require no surface productivity whatsoever. If life is present on Mars today we think it may be in deep aquifers several kms beneath the surface, and below a thick layer on confining ground ice.

[ JackFarmer/Exobiologist - 18 - 14:50:59 ]
RE: [Vince/Boeing-Vince/Boeing] Considering the gravitational and environmental differences between Mars and Earth but a parallel 'life' evolution. How do you feel similar structures would differ in the two worlds. ie.... stromatolites?
Hi Vince, The differences between the Earth and Mars are substantial and yes, I do think that if life developed there, the details of its evolution will certainly reflect the contrasting environments. It is hard to know what to expect with samll microbial things, however. They live at such small spatial scales that viscous forces would undoubtedly dominate over gravity forces anyway and the physical effects on form could be minimal. On the other hand, metabolic strategies could be markedly different given that the Martian crust has chemistry more like basalt and very limited aqueous weathering to liberate soluable compounds like phosphorous which are an important requirement for living systems as we know them.

[ Sandy/NASAChatHost - 19 - 14:51:46 ]
RE: [Marko-MarkoStahl/BadSchnbornGermany] Hi Sandy and Jack,... a little late due to "typing problems.
No problem Marko! We're glad you're here! Do you some questions for Jack?

[ Sandy/NASAChatHost - 24 - 14:55:29 ]
RE: [Bob-BobClark] Hello, Dr. Farmer. I sent you today via e-mail a suggestion that the dark structures in the recent Mars Surveyor images from Aug. 10th could be stromatolites. The explanation on the MGS page were that they were patterns (flat) on the ice. But the video of the news conference on the images suggest that have a height. Have you seen these images, Professor?
Welcome Bob! And, good question!

[ JackFarmer/Exobiologist - 25 - 14:56:12 ]
RE: [David-Mars2012/UniversityofCalifornia] I would like to know what efforts are made to search for life on Mars. I know that the Open University of Great Britain, Colin Pilinger is doing something, but I heard they will use the GCMS method like the Viking Mission, which turned out to be not sufficiently sensitive to organics. Has anyone consider the direct culture method (the old fashion way) and observe with micrscopy for motility, morphology, mode of reproduction, enzymatic activity...???
Hi David, The currrent Mars Program in the US has placed an emphasis on searching for fossil biosignatures in rocks. The general concensus in the community is that conditions on Mars are probably to extreme for life, thus explaining the results of the Viking biology experiments. If you recall the Viking landers carried GCMS experiments that could have detected organic compounds in soils at one part in a billion. Not one carbon-containing molecule was found! That suggests that the soil chemistry easily destroys organics (you would expect something, even if life never developed becuase of infalls of organic rich dust and carbonaceous chondrites from space). Direct ciulturing is not being seriously considered except for returned samples to mainly check for harmful bugs or forward contamination by Earth critters during sample collection.

[ JackFarmer/Exobiologist - 26 - 14:58:44 ]
RE: [David-Mars2012/UniversityofCalifornia] One of my concerns, is of the Public Health nature. If we do find microbes there, we may return some "Opportunistic" organisms which may turn out to be "Andromeda Strains". So I feel that Robotics Laboratory testing is essential. If bacteria, etc are found, pathogenicity tests should be done with animals by manned laboratory ON MARS and not returned to Earth. Any feeling on this?
Dear David, Your concerns about planetary protection are justified. NASA is spending a lot of time and money preparing for the planned Mars sample return mission in 2005 (samples will actually get here in 2008). The current plan is to contain the samples and place them in a Class 3 or 4 containment facility until they are certified safe. Much planning is in the works and there is lots to be done still. But at least NASA and the International community at large is thinking about the issue!

[ JackFarmer/Exobiologist - 29 - 15:01:25 ]
RE: [Vince/Boeing-Vince/Boeing] Is it possible that in Mars's atmosphere 'water vapor clouds' contain some forms of microscopic life? (As I would imagine clouds on Earth do)
Vince, I guess anything is possible. certainly we know there are many airborne organisms on Earth. Most are not viable or are transported as spores. But we know organisms can survive in the atmosphere for long periods, so this is certainly a possibility. the only problem I have is where would they be coming from? Most surface environments could be deemed unfavorable for life, so we have to worry about sources.

[ JackFarmer/Exobiologist - 31 - 15:04:12 ]
RE: [Bob-BobClark] Hello, Dr. Farmer. I sent you today via e-mail a suggestion that the dark structures in the recent Mars Surveyor images from Aug. 10th could be stromatolites. The explanation on the MGS page were that they were patterns (flat) on the ice. But the video of the news conference on the images suggest that have a height. Have you seen these images, Professor?
Hi Bob, I have yet to look at the most recent images you are referring to, but have seen some of the other MOC images. In general I think these these laminated structures are at a scale to large to call stromatolites. It is easier to image them as layers of ice alternating with dust fallout from storms. this is how they have been interpreted in the past and I have seen nothing yet to challenge that interpretation.

[ JackFarmer/Exobiologist - 34 - 15:07:13 ]
RE: [Marko-MarkoStahl/BadSchnbornGermany] You often collected samples in Yellowstone Park. Does that mean that sulfolobus and its "fellows" doesn't like laboratory conditions?
Hi Marko, Sulfolobus and related organisms have been successfully cultured, and you don't even need to go to Yellowstone to get samples (you can buy pure cultures from the American Type Culture Collection). The reason I dom a lot of my work in the field is because I am really interested in how the organisms interact with geological processes, such as mineral precipitation. While some of this can be done in the lab, there is really no substitute for field work. For one thing, while you can isolate an organism and grow it in the lab, in nature these species live in ecosystems that are much more difficult to emulate in the lab.

[ Sandy/NASAChatHost - 36 - 15:08:15 ]
RE: [Karen-KarenMeyers/RMSCGVSU] Hi, Sandy & Jack - I will be working with K-12 teachers and students as they develop their plans for the Mars Millennium initative (where students create projects related to a Mars Colony for 100 persons in the year 2030). There is considerable discussion so far about the presence of underground water or lakes. Would this water be accessible for use by a colony? What types of water purification equipment might be needed it it was?
Hi Karen! Glad you could join us today!

[ JackFarmer/Exobiologist - 37 - 15:09:52 ]
RE: [David-Mars2012/UniversityofCalifornia] I agree. The surface environment is pretty hostile to life, but Dr. Frances Westall NASA JSC suggests that "Life will find a way" and bacteria may have protective shields. My feeling is that we will have better chance of finding life is in the subsurface water environment. So, we have to drill for water samples for cultivation.
David, Frances is a colleague and I understand her arguments. But to me the science has to be by observation. Just saying life will find a way involves a leap of faith I am unwilling to take. True, there are organisms here on earth that make their own sunscreen pigments to protect against UV, etc. But we have not been able to culture organisms under present Mars conditions, so if life has found a way, it has not yet done so on Earth! I say lets look and see!

[ JackFarmer/Exobiologist - 38 - 15:11:29 ]
RE: [Marko-MarkoStahl/BadSchnbornGermany] Are there other species than cyanobacteriae that can build stromatolites?
Hi Marko, Yes, other bacteria can also build laminated structures. So can algae. Its just that (with a few exceptions) most of the stromatolite-like structures we find in the record resemble most the structures built by living cyanobacteria.

[ JackFarmer/Exobiologist - 39 - 15:14:09 ]
RE: [Vince/Boeing-Vince/Boeing] If organisms are found on Mars would they be scientifically named/classified using the Earth model or would a new scheme have to be devised?
Hi Vince, I suppose that if we found an organism in a Martian sample, the starting point would be to compare it directly to terrestrial species. We would probably begin with its genetic machinery to see if it also uses a DNA-RNA based system. If so, then we would sequence its DNA and try and fit it into the eixiting phylogenetic tree. If no comparisons could be drawn then I guess we would have to invent a descriptive system to convey the similarities and differences.

[ Sandy/NASAChatHost - 41 - 15:15:02 ]
RE: [Karen-KarenMeyers/RMSCGVSU] Hi, Sandy & Jack - I will be working with K-12 teachers and students as they develop their plans for the Mars Millennium initative (where students create projects related to a Mars Colony for 100 persons in the year 2030). There is considerable discussion so far about the presence of underground water or lakes. Would this water be accessible for use by a colony? What types of water purification equipment might be needed it it was?
Karen: If you haven't done so yet, be sure to check out the upcoming "Mars Millennium Project Surviving & Thriving on Mars" webcast/chat on Sept. 28 at 10 am, Pacific. For further info go to:http://quest.arc.nasa.gov/ltc/mars/index.html

[ JackFarmer/Exobiologist - 43 - 15:17:35 ]
RE: [David-Mars2012/UniversityofCalifornia] Jack, What do you think of the liquid water found inside the Texas meteorite halide crystals? They could host halophiles?
Hi David, The Texas meteorite is indeed interesting! The halite indicates that aqueous weathering processes were operating in the nebula where the object accreted. I doubt that we can get much beyond that. certainly we know that salt crystals entrap lots of organisms and fluids when they form on Earth. I expect that one of the first things scientists did in looking at the fluids entrapped in the halite of that meteroite was to look for organic materials. If they have found such things I have not heard. Personally I would be surprised.

[ JackFarmer/Exobiologist - 44 - 15:19:20 ]
RE: [David-Mars2012/UniversityofCalifornia] Jack, Gil Levin still believes that he has found evidence of life on Martian soil in his Viking Labelled Release Experiment. What do you think of it?
Dear David, I have heard Gil's arguments many times. I am not at all convinced. What is missing for me is a compelling reason why the results obtained can't be entirely inorganic. I guess others feel similarly and that is why is view is in the minority.

[ Sandy/NASAChatHost - 46 - 15:20:20 ]
THERE ARE ABOUT 15 MINUTES LEFT in today's chat with Jack. One favor, at the end of the chat, please fill out a short chat survey and let us know what you think about Quest Chats. The short survey can be found at: http://quest.arc.nasa.gov/qchats/qchat-surveys. Thank you!

[ JackFarmer/Exobiologist] - 47 - 15:22:41]
RE: [Karen-KarenMeyers/RMSCGVSU]Hi, Sandy & Jack - I will be working with K-12 teachers and students as they develop their plans for the Mars Millennium initative (where students create projects related to a Mars Colony for 100 persons in the year 2030). There is considerable discussion so far about the presence of underground water or lakes. Would this water be accessible for use by a colony? What types of water purification equipment might be needed it it was?
Hi Karen, Welcome! The main problem with using Martiuan groundwater is that if it is there (remains to be proven although the idea is reasonable based on models) then it is likely to be 4-5 kms down and we will have to drill to reach it. This is unlikely to be done before human missions, but once we have astronauts on the surface, I would think this will be one of their most important scientific tasks. It would probably be easier to access ground ice and melt it for water. That will be much near the surface, or actually at the surface at latitudes higher than about 40 degrees.

[ JackFarmer/Exobiologist - 48 - 15:25:01 ]
RE: [Marko-MarkoStahl/BadSchnbornGermany] Jack, in borehole projects bacteria are claimed to be found several kilometers deep in the earth crust. If this is really true, do You have an idea how they managed to get there?
Hi Marko, Most of the best studies subsurafce bacteria are in sediments that were deposited at the surface and have been subsequently buried by a thick mantle of younger deposits. In that case, the microbes may have been deposited with the sediments. But this is hard to prove in most cases because groundwater may circulate down from the surface also carrying microbes.

[ JackFarmer/Exobiologist - 50 - 15:26:54 ]
RE: [David-Mars2012/UniversityofCalifornia] Jack, Have you heard of a nanopore technique to search for general long chain polyers...ss DNA and ss RNA by Professor David Deamer of UC Santa Cruz? I think it may be a promising method to search for evidence of life.
Dear David, Dave Deamer is a good colleague and I very much respect his work. Although I have not heard of the nanopore method, it sounds fascinating and I expect if Dave thinks it will work he is someone to listen to!

[ JackFarmer/Exobiologist - 52 - 15:31:20 ]
RE: [Vince/Boeing-Vince/Boeing] I've heard that the Apollo astronauts found Earth 'stow-away' bacteria on the Surveyor lander on the moon….If so, are they still there? How have they adapted to the moon environment?
Hi Vince, You are right about forward contamination of the moon during Apollo. Despite our efforts to clean things, we transported lots of microbes on spacecraft components (and on astronauts) which are likely still there. When a camera we left on the moon for about 2 years was returned it still had Earth organisms present that could be revived. the lesson here is that simple microbes may be able to survive for long periods in space. How long is unclear, but it is something we need to know more about because some people think that microbes might have been transported to Earth from Mars (or even vise versa) on meteorites.

[ Sandy/NASAChatHost - 53 - 15:31:24 ]
EVERYONE: I'm sorry to say that there are only about 2 minutes left to chat with Jack. He will finish answering a question or two and then we'll have to let him get back to his real work!

[ Sandy/NASAChatHost - 54 - 15:32:43 ]
EVERYONE: Please spend a few minutes filling out the short chat survey at: http://quest.arc.nasa.gov/qchats/qchat-surveys. Thanks!

[ JackFarmer/Exobiologist - 55 - 15:33:39 ]
RE: [David-Mars2012/UniversityofCalifornia] As far as you know, are there any efforts considered or made to culture bacteria from Martian water? I recall that Dr. Wolf Vishniac had designed a lab to culture Martian material and look for turbidity and pH change, but the idea died with him when he fell off an ice cliff in Antartica in 1978.
Dear David, Because liquid water is unstable at the surface of Mars, few people have considered doing what you suggest. What has been discussed is to include culturing facilities with any Mars base we build so that astronauts who drill into the deep subsurface (where liquid water could be present) will be able to do what you suggest.

[ Sandy/NASAChatHost - 57 - 15:34:48 ]
EVERYONE: Jack will answer the remaining questions, but please do not send anymore as he really does have to get back to work! Thanks :-)

[ JackFarmer/Exobiologist - 60 - 15:36:35 ]
RE: [Marko-MarkoStahl/BadSchnbornGermany] Thermopilic Archebacteria: Do they have a faster metabolism and faster reproduction than their cooler relatives?
Dear Marko, Interesting question! One would expect that because of higher temperatures and faster reaction rates, metabolic (and by implication growth) rates would be faster at higher temperatures. But it is not that simple. The rate of doubling depends primarily on nutrient availability. However, if nutrients are abundant, then a faster doubling time could reasonably be expected.

[ Sandy/NASAChatHost - 61 - 15:36:39 ]
RE: [Marko-MarkoStahl/BadSchnbornGermany] Jack and Sandy: Thank You very much.It was exciting as it was my very first chat at all!
Marko: So glad you could make it!! It must be quite late in Germany right now... Join us again on Sept. 8 for a chat with Carol Stoker, project scientist for the Marsokhod rover- http://quest.arc.nasa.gov/ltc/mars/index.html

[ JackFarmer/Exobiologist - 62 - 15:37:04 ]
RE: [David-Mars2012/UniversityofCalifornia] Thanks for chatting, Jack. We ought to do this more often
Thanks David. I enjoyed it too!

[ Sandy/NASAChatHost - 63 - 15:38:56 ]
EVERYONE: Join in another Quest Mars Chat with Marsokhod rover project scientist Carol Stoker on Sept. 8 at 10 a.m, Pacific. To sign up for the chat go to-- http://quest.arc.nasa.gov/ltc/mars/index.html

[ JackFarmer/Exobiologist - 65 - 15:40:25 ]
RE: [Bob-BobClark] Dr. Farmer, I saw the abstract to your paper NEW TYPES OF BIOGENIC STRUCTURES IN MINERALS AND ROCKS FROM NONSEDIMENTARY ENVIRONMENTS: FUTURE APPLICATION TO THE SEARCH FOR ANCIENT LIFE FORMS IN MARTIAN ROCKS. I saw an image of one of the Mars meteorites suggestive of biogenic weathering. Could you explain this method?
Dear Bob, We are hoping to show with this work that there is a fairly extensively developed fossil record of subsurface life in lower temperature hydrothermal environments. I'm not sure which work you are referring to re: biogenic weathering of meteorites, but it is becoming clear that most meteorites have been substantially contaminated by terrestrial microbes and that the colonizers do have a noteble effect on surface textures of some minerals.

[ Sandy/NASAChatHost - 67 - 15:41:22 ]
RE: [Vince/Boeing-Vince/Boeing] Thanks Sandy and Jack
Goodbye Vince! Thanks for you questions! Hope to chat with you again on Sept. 8!

[ Vince/Boeing-Vince/Boeing - 68 - 15:45:08 ]
I'll be there.

[ JackFarmer/Exobiologist - 69 - 15:46:03 ]
Thanks to everyone for a fun chat. I'll be signing off now! Until next time, be sure to keep the good questions in mind! Jack

[ Sandy/NASAChatHost - 71 - 15:48:03 ]
GOOD BYE EVERYONE! You sent in some great questions! We look forward to chatting with you again in the very near future! http://quest.arc.nasa.gov/ltc/mars/index.html